Hello everybody, and thank you for joining us for another episode of Vet Chat. Today we're delighted to be joined by Hannah Perrin. Hannah has 20 years' experience in veterinary practise.
She originally qualified as a pharmacologist, subsequently becoming practise manager of a busy for site mixed practise in Kent. After 10 years with the practise, she went back to her studies and completed a master's in health services research, followed by a PhD in veterinary education, exploring occupational identity. Hannah taught at the Royal Veterinary College for a few years before returning to a more direct practise contact role with VMG responsible for research, education, and operations management.
She is now head of centre and course director for the new VMG ILM Award, certificate and diploma in Veterinary Leadership and Management. So welcome, Hannah, thank you for joining us. Thank you very much for having me.
So today we're gonna have a chat about the ILM Level 5 certificate and diploma in Leadership and Management, which VMD launched specifically last year I believe. Yes, that's right. Can you tell us a little bit about the origins and development of the certificate?
Sure, yeah. So. VMG has existed in, in various guises since the early 90s.
So we've been around for about 30 years now, and we started life as the, the VPMA, the Veterinary practise Management Association, which, you know, older listeners might remember. And we've offered a, a qualification since, since the early days. So, for a long time, it was the certificate in Veterinary practise Management.
And that lasted for, for a long time. And when I joined VMG, which was now 2 years ago, We were getting feedback that although the the CVPM it was our flagship, qualification, it's very well respected in in the sector. It was due an update, essentially, and with the, feedback that we were getting.
We realised that what we really needed to offer and what was, was needed in the veterinary sector was, firstly, a, a specific taught course, and also something that was a bit more flexible. So we've embedded some sort of principles into the, the new course that we launched last year. So, principles of flexibility and accessibility as well, and making sure that these sort of qualifications are.
Are available to as wide, a range of people in the veterinary sector as possible. So, we started making plans, oh, probably a good year and a half ago now. We started building our structure and building our course.
We went through a very, rigorous accreditation process, because that was one of the other things that we wanted to see that we could do was to, to get, an external accreditation for our courses. So we're now an approved centre for the ILM, the Institute of Leadership and Management. So that was a big hurdle that, that we jumped last year.
Fantastic. And then, yeah, so we launched with a, a small pilot cohort, in the middle of last year. So we had 8 brave souls who are our first pilot cohort, and they're more than halfway through now.
And then our second cohort started in September, and we've got our next cohort starting in spring. Brilliant, fantastic. So how you mentioned it's very flexible with the structure and things, how does it work?
So, we've got all three stages available of the, the ILM, leadership and management qualifications. So we're at level 5. And we have the award, the certificate, and the diploma available.
So, we've got a modular structure, so we've got, I think there are 15 or so modules available. So the award is one module. Yeah.
The certificate is 4 modules, and the diploma is 8 modules. So it means that people can build a qualification that suits them. So the, the first two modules are compulsory.
So we do a module on, understanding, leadership roles and leadership skills, leadership styles, that kind of thing. That's where we start. We then do a second module on, sort of looking at your organisation.
So we look at Why your practise exists and what it does and what its role is, and what the influences are on what it does and how well it does, and why people want to bring their animals to you, or why people want to work there. But then after that, we go into the optional modules. So people can pick modules to suit themselves, their team, their role, their practise, their ambitions.
So they can choose, I mean, we have a, a range, anything from, we have sort of practical modules on practise finance or marketing or mental health at work, on developing teams, on, practise in society. We've got, I think there were about 15 or so. Options.
So people can choose what suits them. And the flexibility means that if they need to take a break between modules, they can. If they want to go off and hike Kilimanjaro, or have a baby or whatever.
Or if you've got something big coming up at work that they know is gonna take up a lot of their brain space, they could take a break between modules and pick up again when, when they've got the time. OK, brilliant. So there is a lot of flexibility there.
So from when they start it, is there a certain amount of time that they have to complete it within? Is there kind of like a sort of time period, the ILA stipulates 6 years wow, OK. So you do have.
Have plenty of time, so you can't stretch it out that long. Obviously, we would encourage people to sort of keep some momentum going and perhaps take quite that long. But I mean, the sport is there if they want to.
I mean, most people do, we found they have chosen to go right through. Cause once you get into it, You're kind of keen to carry on, and you want to, to move through the stages, as quickly as possible. But, but one of the, the fundamental principles we wanted to include was that element of flexibility.
And, a few of our current participants have sort of taken advantage of that. If they've, for example, we've got one lady in our pilot cohort who has changed jobs. So she wants to take a, a bit of a breather, just to sort of settle into the new role, and then she'll pick up again this year.
OK, fantastic. Sounds great. So is it for anybody at all in veterinary practise?
Oh, good question. Theoretically, yes. It's a level 5 qualification, this one, which is the equivalent of a either a higher national diploma or 2nd year undergraduate.
So that's one consideration. And it is a qualification in leadership and management, so we would expect normally participants to have some kind of management, leadership, supervisory role, in the, well, it doesn't necessarily have to be in, in a veterinary practise. We've got people who, who don't work directly in a clinical practise.
But we would expect someone to be about that level, or we do have a few people who are aspiring to that level. So they want to start developing their leadership and management skills. They've got an eye to their own career development, and they're thinking if they can start developing some of these skills now, then that will help, in terms of their progression within their organisation.
OK, fantastic. And obviously it is quite challenging, isn't it, at the moment in the profession. What would you say to encourage, you know, businesses who are considering the qualification but maybe aren't, you know, 100% convinced that now's the right time for them?
Yeah, no, absolutely, it's a, it's a great question and it and it's a, it's a really important consideration. We know that things are tough in practise at the moment. I mean, when I've been talking to my tutTs, .
Most people are trying to recruit at the moment. Obviously situations are difficult, just in terms of how practises are operating at the moment and the restrictions and and that kind of thing. So it is a challenging time and I absolutely appreciate that.
But what I would say to, to practises who are having those kind of sort of thoughts is that supporting your teams is one of the most useful and most important ways that you can, keep things positive, essentially. So, for a practise who is thinking of maybe sending one of their staff members on a course like this, It demonstrates that you are supporting people, you are investing in their development. You'll be able to grow the business because you are injecting new skills and new ideas that people will pick up from the course.
You can boost practise efficiency. The, the whole focus of the course is on applicability. Like, we do talk a lot about, sort of theory, but The beauty of being able to build the course ourselves is that we've all been there and done it.
We know what it's like on the ground. So we can make sure that everything that we cover in the course is practically applicable on, on the shop floor, kind of thing. .
So there's a focus on applicability and I can guarantee you that it will help your practise to grow and that it will help you retain staff because you are demonstrating that you're investing in in their development. Yeah, absolutely. No, I think it's amazing.
I think it's brilliant that to have something like this that is so industry specific, I think is, I think it's fantastic. And I guess on the other side of that is, you know, if you were, you know, a vet or a practise manager in practise and they were keen to know more, where could they find out more? Well, all the information is, on our website.
That's the, the best place to start. So if you want to find out a little bit more about sort of what's involved and what we offer, then the website is vetMG.com/CVLM or certificate in Leadership and Management.
So that gives an overview of sort of the course structure, the different modules available, and what's sort of contained within each one, and just sort of the practicalities of, of how it works. And I'm always very happy to, to answer questions, to chat through people, about how it works and whether they think it would be the right thing for, for them, or one of their colleagues, or one of their, staff members, always happy to, to answer questions or talk things through with people. Oh, that's brilliant.
Thank you. So it started, was it around 6 months ago? Yes, around there, yeah.
Yeah, so when does the sort of next cohort start? So, our next cohort, is starting in spring. So, the way each module works is that participants get, a little bit of preparatory work to do.
So we send out, usually 2, sometimes 3, little sort of activities for people to do to start sort of getting their brains in the right kind of frame of mind. So it might be a, like I've watched this little video or read this thing, or do this little like exercise. So those go out, for the next cohort, those go out in the middle of March.
And then we have a, I keep saying in person. I don't mean in person, as in we physically get together, as in, it's sort of real time on Zoom. Workshop, where we introduce the module, we do some introductory teaching, we do some, sort of learning exercises and that kind of thing, in our small groups.
And then people are, are launched into the, online platform where they work through the, the resources and the exercises, for, they get 2 months for that, and then they, there's an assessment due at the end. So each module lasts roughly 3 months, altogether. OK, brilliant.
I know that sounds great. So, and is the plan for it to remain all online or is it just kind of like that at the moment because of the current situation with the pandemic at the moment. So we are entirely online at the moment and that will, it will continue to be for certainly for the foreseeable future.
As things sort of calm down a little bit and, things get a little bit more back to normal, we are, planning to be able to run, intensive modules, so people will have the choice to either do the online module or to come and, and meet in person for a, maybe 2 or 3 day sort of intensive module where we cover everything, in a few days, and do it all in one go. And again, with the sort of emphasis on, on flexibility, we want to make sure that people have the choice for whatever works best for them and their work patterns and their home life and that kind of thing. Yeah.
Brilliant. Oh, it sounds wonderful. And do you have any plans, to work with any vet schools to, you know, would they be keen to get involved to support the initiative?
Interesting point. Yes. We've had, yeah, several, very productive meetings with, the vet schools council, and we do have, yes, various plans are underway.
Can't say, can't say too much about that until they're sort of publicly launched, but absolutely, it's one of the things, that's interesting if you look. That sort of employer surveys, and for, for new graduates as well, one of the, things that both groups recognise that vet students, when they are newly graduated, they don't have so much confidence in is sort of the business aspects of running a practise and how that works and what their role is in that. And that's something that as, as BMG, we're very keen to support.
So yes, we have ongoing conversations about providing modules for vet schools. And for, undergraduate students and for vet nurses as well. We have, I mean, we have a lot of, RVNs, have started on the course anyway, and I will be joining us in the next cohort.
But starting at, at the sort of training level and sort of embedding these kind of skills into curricula is, yes, something that we're very, very keen on. Brilliant. Oh, that's great.
Sounds wonderful. So, I guess the, you know, my final question would just be, you know, around, obviously I think the programme and everything sounds fantastic. What would you say really differentiates it from other providers right now and you know, what would make you really encourage people to get involved?
Oh, good question. So I think what, what sort of distinguishes our course is that we are the only veterinary association. To be accredited as an ILM centre in our own right, which means that we are, we can award ILM qualifications ourselves.
And because the course has been sort of fully created and developed by VMG people who have absolutely been there and done it in real life veterinary practise, we know what it's like, we know what's needed to do a good job. We know how best to support participants. So it means that anybody that comes and does the course with us will be, when they graduate, they'll be dual qualified.
So they'll have their VMG qualification in veterinary leadership and management. They'll also have their ILM qualification in leadership and management, which are internationally recognised and transferable. So should someone decide that they want to diversify their career, they can take that with them.
So, I think We're kind of, you get the best of both worlds, you get the transferable qualification, but you absolutely get the veterinary specific. Applicable useful stuff that you can take into your practise straight away. Brilliant.
I mean, it sounds fantastic. There's, there's nothing where sometimes when you go on a training course and you leave it and you, you feel like you've learned a lot, but you're not actually sure how you'd apply it in your working environment. So the fact that it is, you know, so specific is, is brilliant.
Oh, that's lovely, Hannah. Oh well, I've, I've really enjoyed learning more about the programme. Thank you so much for your time.
And yeah, as I say, we will help you spread the word about this brilliant, initiative that you're running, and we'll put everything on the webinar vet's blog. Fantastic. We're looking forward to meeting our new spring cohort.
Wonderful. That's great, Hannah, thanks very much. Thanks Catherine.
Bye, bye.
