Hi everybody and welcome to another special episode of Vet Chat, and I am delighted that my first multiple episode podcastee is our current BVA president, Daniela dos Santos. Daniela, so, general election, Brexit, under our care review, burden of proof review, and a global pandemic. And you're only 6 months into your tenure as president.

Any regrets? No, no regrets. Perhaps the one thing I do regret is having joked with Simon last year going, oh, Simon, I don't want to hear like yours.

And, yeah, this has happened. I guess, did not anticipate this at all, to be fair, I don't think anyone could anticipate what's just happened. But for all the challenges, I am in a very privileged position, and I guess I'm, I'm just trying to do my best to, to get the profession through this.

Yeah, and I think there's been a lot of people who've seen, you know, the webinars and, and the, the sort of announcements from the BVA and I think, I, I dare say all of those who've potentially previously turned round and said, oh, you know, what do BVA do and what do BVA do, this may be an opportunity for you to renege on those words because I think, you know, as an organisation it is very much being stood up and counted. Now of course you are very much the figurehead, but there's an awful lot that that goes on there day to day, and I dare say that at the minute it's, it's day to day on speed. But can you just give everybody a a rough insight into, you know, when the proverbial hits the fan, what happens in a, in a, you know, a political organisation like the BVA who does?

So it's worth saying that I guess since this has all happened, I've been very public and open and saying that, of course, I am serving BVA members, but I I'm also currently serving the whole profession because I think when you're dealing with something like a pandemic, my work isn't limited to supporting our 18,000 members. We're in this together. And so for me, You know, our webinars are free to everyone.

Our COVID-19 pages and resources are free to everyone. Anyone can access them because this is so much bigger than than politics. I think, you know, you've mentioned, you know, what happens when the proverbial hits the fan in a political organisation.

I think. There's two things to be aware of. It's worth saying that, as you say, I'm just the face of this, of this thing, but there's only 35 members of full-time members of staff at the BVA that are producing all of this that you are seeing.

They are putting in incredible hours, and it's probably also worth saying that they're not vets either. There are dedicated people behind the scenes doing their absolute best for this profession. And if I'm perfectly honest, over the last 2 or 3 weeks, it has been absolutely insane.

The hours we've had to put in, you know, as soon as we write something, it's suddenly out of date because something else has come out. And so it's been crazy. And I think there's been two aspects, you know, back to the politics thing.

There's been the politics bit where we have been lobbying hard at government on behalf of everyone for, you know, for certain things, you know, we managed to get vets considered. Essential businesses so that we can still uphold our duty to animal welfare and keep our doors open in case the government were to extend restrictions and try and shut more doors. So we've managed to do that.

We're lobbying hard about trying to get flexibility and furloughing, rate relief, and all sorts of things going on behind the scenes. So, from that sort of politics perspective, we are very much active and doing our best for everyone. But from the veterinary politics perspective, I don't think politics matters right now.

I think we are one huge Team, family, it's vets, it's nurses, it's our admin assistants, it's our care assistants. It's all the support staff. We are all in this together.

And so I've been very clear in everything I've done that yet, it has the BVA logo on it, but it's for everyone at the moment and unless we pull together, we can't get through this. Yeah, and I think something that has filled me with immense pride to be a member of the profession is seeing these stories about You know, someone from one corporate group helping somebody else out from another corporate group who helps someone else out from an independent practise, and it's, it's very much changed from an us and them mentality to an us mentality, and I think, you know, that is something of a a silver lining in all of this, I, I find and, you know, a real encouragement and and of course you hope that that . Persists beyond this, but obviously, you know, this is in terms of crisis management, I think, you know, this could be termed, you know, you, you could almost have a thesis on this alone really.

What have you taken from it, you know, I mean, obviously this is still relatively speaking early days in, in, you know, the sort of the full course of of this and. Fallout from it. But what have you taken from it as learnings on a sort of on an individual level?

So you can never prepare for this sort of thing. No amount of crisis management training can prepare you for what's just happened. And I guess my biggest takeaway is that people matter.

And ultimately, that's that's the core of of everything I've put out and everything I've said. When it comes to this is that people matter and we need to have compassion, and we need to have empathy. And when we are all faced with something like this, the only way we get through it is together.

For those of you that listened to my first webinar, the first webinar that I did had over 3000 people watching it live, over 7000 people have watched it since, across the world, across the country, across the professions and and all of those involved in that circles. And I was, I was in this position when, when all this started to happen that I, I became very aware that the financial impact of this on our profession is going to be huge. Actually, the bit that weighed on me the most was the risk to our members and and the fact that I felt as a leader, my duty above all was to the safety of my members.

And so I found that first webinar not challenging, but I, I was, I was quite emotional by the end of it, because I, I essentially felt like I was putting out this rallying cry. I was, I was saying, guys, we, we need to aside competition. We need to put aside everything.

We need to work together to maintain animal health and welfare as best as we can, but to also reduce the spread of this disease and save lives. And I was absolutely overwhelmed watching the profession step up to that challenge that I put to them in the days that followed. I think we're perhaps heading for a slightly different situation.

You know, the current restrictions are only in for 3 weeks. And we need to look forward and see beyond the 3 weeks. You know, we need to have a viable industry financially at the end of this.

And so we we probably are going to start looking beyond the 3 weeks if the government extends the restrictions. What what does that look like? But my overwhelming sense of this is, this is not something that you can prepare for and all you can do is be genuine and put people first.

And I just hope at the end of this that that sense prevails that we are a team and that And if we approach things with compassion and empathy, we can get through anything. Yeah, and I think that that is, you know, I mean, there's been this sort of, you know, hashtag about the profession bounced around for several years now of, you know, we are team vets or, you know, one vet team or the various different sorts of, you know, manifestations of the same mentality, but this really is that that moment to sort of step up and be counted, but also I think, you know, a great. Inverted commas opportunity for a lot of us who, who have been furloughed or, you know, aren't in in full time clinical practise as a consequence of all of this to almost press pause, and sort of, you know, reflect on what we are doing within the profession.

Have you got maybe some thoughts as to, you know, I mean, I, I dare say that, you know, furlough isn't something that's on the cards for you. In fact, your diaries, I dare say bigger busier than ever before, but what, what do you think people could, could potentially look at getting out of their time when they're maybe not living life at such a mental pace as many of us do in clinical practise? So I think I'd just like to step back.

One step in terms of furloughing to start with. I think furloughing is good from a financial perspective for practises, although it's not ideal in terms of the lack of flexibility. But the insane human pressure on managers and business owners at the moment cannot be overlooked in making those decisions as to who to follow and who to not.

And, and actually, the decision to follow isn't a simple one because for those that have furloughed, there is a sense of Leaving the team behind, you know, I can't, I can't help. I can't help the front line because, because I, I, I can't work at the moment. And so for those that are furloughed, you're right, we should look for the positives and and I'll come on to what those positives could be.

But I think some people are seeing fellow as the easy option and actually I I don't think it is. And for those, for those that remain in work, often they're having to cover. Greater hours, you know, and, and stretch the rota.

And I think, you know, they deserve the respect and acknowledgement too. But I, I, I, the decision to follow and being furloughed are difficult ones. In terms of what do we do with our increased time, I think you're right, there are going to be Opportunities out there perhaps to, you know, re-engage in any sort of social activities that you can do from home, obviously.

And hobbies that you could have, that perhaps because you've been working so hard, you you've let go. It's also an opportunity to reconnect with people. What's been amazing is, you know, I do miss the, the personal interaction being in the office and and and and so on.

It's been amazing seeing people use technology and and have conversations. And and socialising in that way and coming up with inventive ways. So I say if you are followed, and don't forget to maintain human contact using technology.

It's really, really important for mental health. There are ways you can help, you know, there's the volunteer army from the NHS that is looking for people to help in the local community and and if if that's something that that you can help with and are well enough to help with, then I think that's a good thing to be doing. And essentially just sharing a bit of love.

Those that are still on the front line and with your bosses, because they will be struggling a lot as well. Yeah, I think that that's something that is is is very much front and centre, and I certainly know as as as a board member in spivs, there's a lot of people who are in practise ownership, practise leadership, who are really struggling and torn through the sort of, you know, they're wanting to support their team. And at the same time they're wanting to have businesses that are there at the end of the day, and, and, you know, that is for some, you know, real serious concerns.

And I think, you know, obviously, as a leader you've been very, very clear, and as an organisation, the BVA has been very, very clear in, you know, this is essential work, this is not essential work. And I think the vast majority have been clear at er have been good at. Following those, those guidelines and instructions.

And I think as an organisation you have this responsibility to the profession and to the general public, and it's sometimes hard balancing those, but to all of those who are struggling on in, in practise, what would you, what would you say to them? First of all, thank you. Just thank you for for being there for, for continuing to protect animal welfare.

I'm sorry that for many of you, you're getting a lot of difficult interactions with clients. You know, I think this is a difficult time for the whole world and for everybody and with you being on the front line, you, you will inevitably get to have some difficult conversations. But overwhelmingly, thank you for still being out there and still doing the work.

I think for for those who are still out there and our bosses or leaders, The ship can be a lonely place in the time of a crisis in terms of your working at 100 miles an hour, just trying to keep up, trying to manage your responsibilities to your staff, to your business, to wider society, to animal welfare, and sometimes there's no time to breathe, and it can be lonely. So do keep talking, whatever position you're in in the in in the profession, you know, we're all in this together. Just keep talking.

Yeah, I think that is, you know, paramount, and it's, you know, Testament that we've said for a long time as a profession is, you know, if you are struggling, don't struggle alone and, you know, we're we're very, very fortunate to have services, the likes of Vet Life at our disposal and, you know, that is so, so paramount for people to utilise if they are struggling. But that, that interaction from one man to another, from one woman to another, from one veterinary professional to another, and a friend to another. It is so galvanising and it, you know, it really is great to see all of the different endeavours people are doing.

I wonder actually if you've had any, I dare say that downtime is something of an alien concept to you at this moment in time, but what have you personally sort of taking BVA, taking veterinary out of it? What, what have you had a chance to. Inverted commas enjoy in this whole experience so I've started painting again.

I, you know, it comes to a point that I need to switch my mind off. So I've started painting again. I've been like I've been using technology to have virtual drinks with people and things like that.

If I'm perfectly honest, the last 2.5 weeks downtime has been limited. But I think, you know, that's currently my job.

That's currently my job to provide some leadership, genuine leadership and and do what I think is. Right. You know, I've had contact from, some vets following my first webinar, thanking me for giving them the courage to do what they thought was right and to say it's OK.

And I guess that's the position I'm in at the moment. I'm in a very privileged position, you know, for, for all the pressure that I'm under, I'm in a privileged position and the sort of pressure I'm under is is different to the to the pressure that others are facing. And so I don't, I don't really want to over egg not having downtime or working long hours.

It's what I signed up for. And I knew it, well, I didn't know a pandemic was coming. But I, I knew that I'd have to make some difficult decisions.

And I guess I've just done it with as much empathy and honesty as I can. Yeah, and I think that is, is something that's absolutely to be applauded, and I think the personally I look at it and go, you know, that, that frank, brutal honesty and and open nature of things has made the changes to practise very much easier to understand, fathom and to stomach, because I think and and for the first time I did. For a lot of us in our working professional careers and some of us, you know, since the last crisis that of course as soon as it finishes is forgotten, you know, it's great to see the profession coming together as one and working for, you know, the long term survival of it.

And I think, you know, that is something that is, is, is just really credible. You're right. You know that I'm really proud of how the profession has stepped up.

I, I am honoured to be part of this profession and I think the next week and a half, 2 weeks probably will lead to us all contemplating and thinking about how we do maintain a viable profession through this if government restrictions are extended. You know, how can we continue to do as much work as possible safely? And so I think, That that's that's the next challenge for for us as the profession and and of course the BVA will will help and guide the profession through that.

But it's how do we ensure there is still a viable profession at the end of all of this. Yeah, well, I think, you know, that is the front and centre thing is making sure that we all survive and I think, you know, I stand up upfront on this podcast and of course alongside. I dare say everybody else in this profession when I can turn around and say thank you for everything that you're doing individually, but as, as the organisations are doing.

As as a whole and collectively in terms of, you know, ensuring that long term survival, and I think to quote, a very, very famous scouse term and and one that everyone who has been at university in Liverpool will, will know, those of you who who potentially haven't been up this neck of the woods will look very confused by and just going, Daniella, you and the team are doing the best job, thank you, and I think, you know, really, really blessed to be under such great leadership. I mean, thank you. Doing our best and we're doing it with as much honesty and integrity as we possibly can muster.

But actually, the thank yous are beyond me. The thank yous go to those vets working in government and civil service that are, you know, trying hard behind the scenes to to ensure animal welfare is, you know, maintained and the government policy reflects that to all those vets on the ground who are still maintaining frontline services, to the bosses who are making difficult decisions, trying to keep their staff safe and businesses afloat, to those vets working in food production. Thank you, you're keeping food on our table.

I might be the face of this, but I am not the one that's out there on the coalface doing all of this. So, so whilst I say thank you for your comments, the biggest, biggest, biggest thank you has to go to the profession, nursing, care assistants, vets, everyone as a whole, who is working so hard to get us through this. Well, I think that is the ultimate perfect title for a podcast, really, isn't it?

A thank you to the profession. So Daniella, thank you. It's 6:30 at night when we're finishing recording this, so I think it's about time that we say, look, go and get a glass of wine.

Please, God, you get more than 12 minutes sleep tonight. And, and yeah, I, I look forward to, to catching up with you soon when things have hopefully, God willing, calm down.